Open Discussion Forum

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room. 

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way. 

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play. 

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Hi DeAnn,

I am a kindergarten teacher in Washington, and my experience (at least in my district) has been that DAP is the foundation of how we plan and approach full day K.  Are you familiar with the Kindergarten guidebook from OSPI?

https://www.k12.wa.us/sites/default/files/public/earlylearning/pubdocs/wafull-daykguide-january2016.pdf

If I am remembering correctly, a lot of the tenets from this guide was based on a High Scope model, but (as you mentioned) is going to look different in a classroom setting with 20+ children and 1 adult.  This is an important conversation to bring to the table and I am glad you shared!  

I am sure your grandchild's teacher appreciates the extra help and support you are giving!


------------------------------
Aubrey Merritt
Bellingham WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Aubrey, thank you! I have not seen this. I will have to take a good look at it. Thanks so much for sharing the guidelines from our state of Washington.

DeAnn

------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2022 12:29 AM
From: Aubrey Merritt
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

Hi DeAnn,

I am a kindergarten teacher in Washington, and my experience (at least in my district) has been that DAP is the foundation of how we plan and approach full day K.  Are you familiar with the Kindergarten guidebook from OSPI?

https://www.k12.wa.us/sites/default/files/public/earlylearning/pubdocs/wafull-daykguide-january2016.pdf

If I am remembering correctly, a lot of the tenets from this guide was based on a High Scope model, but (as you mentioned) is going to look different in a classroom setting with 20+ children and 1 adult.  This is an important conversation to bring to the table and I am glad you shared!

I am sure your grandchild's teacher appreciates the extra help and support you are giving!


------------------------------
Aubrey Merritt
Bellingham WA

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

We all know that DAP applies to K- 2 students also, but school districts and elementary teachers are often slow to get that message.  Many administrators think that ECE classrooms should look just like mini-6th grades, and many teachers in K - 2 were originally teachers of older grades who have gotten no additional training, except perhaps about early reading instruction.

However, as the state of California works on its Preschool - 3rd alignment, there are many voices from the top saying "Early Elementary classrooms need to become more like Preschool classrooms, NOT vice verse!"  They are also looking into instituting a new Early Childhood Teaching Credential for teachers of children 0 to 8, which would definitely train potential teachers about DAP.  In the interim, a requirement is being phased in that TK teachers must have ECE training or ECE Permits as well as Multiple Subjects (basically, "Elementary") credentials.

Another state that is working towards developmentally appropriate early elementary classrooms is Massachusetts.

There may be others that I'm not yet aware of.

There is positive change happening in the UK and New Zealand and Australia as well, from what I hear from overseas colleagues.  And there is always Finland to lead the way, along with Norway, Denmark, and Sweden to a lesser extent.

We need to gently yet strongly educate people about best practices.  Keep on speaking out!

------------------------------
Susan Strong
trainer/coach
Berkeley CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Hi, DeAnn! How wonderful for you to be in the classroom that your grandchild is attending!


------------------------------
Andrea Amari Dekker
Early Education Specialist
United Way of Tucson and Southern Arizona
Tucson, AZ
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

So much of what happens in kindergarten depends on the teacher/school/district, it hard to generalize. I do agree we have to continue to promote DAP. At the same time, I recommend to Prek educators ( center and family care) to visit a kindergarten classroom -in the community where children will attend-every couple of years to get a glimpse of k!

And also for pre-K to prepare children and parents for the reality of kindergarten by gently rehearsing kindergarten practices, even -horror!!- showing them how to use a worksheet. Frankly,  doing a worksheet once or twice  a week in pre-K will make children feel competent in K ( social emotional skill). That is,  while the adults actively move their elementary colleagues to DAP:)

------------------------------
Angele Sancho Passe
consultant, writer
www.angelesanchopasse.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2022 09:22 AM
From: Andrea Dekker
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

Hi, DeAnn! How wonderful for you to be in the classroom that your grandchild is attending!

The longer developmentally appropriate practices are done with children, the better off they will be. Therefore, you should never take play out of an early childhood education program just because some kindergarten classrooms are getting it wrong! This kindergarten needs some guidance. Is there a way to help educate them? Maybe since you teach for Purdue University, they would accept some guidance from you. Do you get the feeling that the teacher is growth minded? If so, she might be happy to try some alternate methods. Maybe this could be discussed with her once you have developed a trusting relationship?

------------------------------
Andrea Amari Dekker
Early Education Specialist
United Way of Tucson and Southern Arizona
Tucson, AZ

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Andrea, you make a great point. I know this teacher is just very busy with a large class, and kids coming into Kindergarten are coming less and less prepared. Some kids don't know how to form even one letter in their name. She has a lot on her plate, so it would be best for me to establish rapport first and then see if I can offer suggestions and help in a caring and productive way. I know that one help coming for her is that they have just hired another Kindergarten teacher so about 4-5 of her kids will go to the new class. I'll work on rapport right now.

------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2022 09:22 AM
From: Andrea Dekker
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

Hi, DeAnn! How wonderful for you to be in the classroom that your grandchild is attending!

The longer developmentally appropriate practices are done with children, the better off they will be. Therefore, you should never take play out of an early childhood education program just because some kindergarten classrooms are getting it wrong! This kindergarten needs some guidance. Is there a way to help educate them? Maybe since you teach for Purdue University, they would accept some guidance from you. Do you get the feeling that the teacher is growth minded? If so, she might be happy to try some alternate methods. Maybe this could be discussed with her once you have developed a trusting relationship?

------------------------------
Andrea Amari Dekker
Early Education Specialist
United Way of Tucson and Southern Arizona
Tucson, AZ

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Hi DeAnn,
I have to say that this 'gap' has always concerned me for my entire career of 40ish years. Once I gave a 1-2nd grade teacher my already read Young Children magazines and she responded as your elem teacher did that she'd never heard of NAEYC before, but she was grateful. I also struggled to work with 3rd grade teachers (that year when kiddos turn 8) about DAP. No clue as to why their kiddos were not able to do certain things, and when I brought up the point that it wasn't developmentally appropriate yet, they looked like they didn't understand. Educational moment, but unfortunately it was often in the middle of an IEP meeting.

I now work mostly in early intervention and I'm finding the same issue. I'm a speech-language pathologist with my first degree in ECE, essentially (wasn't called that way back when). Early interventionists are often not familiar with NAEYC. Some of them go to Zero to Three which is a great alternative, but I have always found merit in both of these organizations. 

From my analysis over the many years, NAEYC puts a lot of emphasis on the preschool years (to me 3-5 year olds) which is great. But I have always advocated that my early childhood studies took in 0-8 year olds. I even advocated for that when I was helping to write our state 'standards' for early childhood. I wanted them to go through 8 years old, but was told we had to stop at 5 years because the core standards were for kindergarten already. It was a HUGE can of worms to open. So, I do fully agree that there needs to be more advocacy here for what we ECE folks feel is important - DAP from 0-8 years. Honestly, I believe it should be developmentally appropriate education overall! But I can't think like a 12-year old. Ha ha!

I fully appreciate you bringing up this topic. It has always bothered me and I would love to see some change.
Kate Ross, MS CCC-SLP

------------------------------
Kate Ross
Kate Ross, MS, CCC-SLP, Consulting & Writing, LLC
Middlesex VT
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

So many thoughts! But here are a few:
When I was a director one of the Preschool teachers was very concerned with getting kids ready for kindergarten. One of the Toddler teachers said, "It is not our job to get children ready for anything, it is our job to meet them where they are."
One of the public school kindergarten teachers told him something like, "We don't want preschool teachers "getting kids ready for kindergarten" in any formal way.  Children in group settings are gaining the social emotional skills they will need to be successful in kindergarten so keep on doing what you've always done."
Unfortunately it is true that many early elementary teachers and principals don't know about NAEYC or DAP and that many kindergarten teachers have submitted to push down curriculum standards but I think it continues to be our job to resist the push down and advocate for play.

------------------------------
Margery Heyl
Chicago IL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Love that attitude Margery! You're right on. Thank you!
Kate

------------------------------
Kate Ross
Kate Ross, MS, CCC-SLP, Consulting & Writing, LLC
Middlesex VT
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2022 10:44 AM
From: Margery Heyl
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

So many thoughts! But here are a few:
When I was a director one of the Preschool teachers was very concerned with getting kids ready for kindergarten. One of the Toddler teachers said, "It is not our job to get children ready for anything, it is our job to meet them where they are."
One of the public school kindergarten teachers told him something like, "We don't want preschool teachers "getting kids ready for kindergarten" in any formal way.  Children in group settings are gaining the social emotional skills they will need to be successful in kindergarten so keep on doing what you've always done."
Unfortunately it is true that many early elementary teachers and principals don't know about NAEYC or DAP and that many kindergarten teachers have submitted to push down curriculum standards but I think it continues to be our job to resist the push down and advocate for play.

------------------------------
Margery Heyl
Chicago IL

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

DeAnn, you expressed something very important beyond describing excellent teaching in your home. Early childhood education is rarely taught at the university level. It has appeared to me that even the Ph.D. level consultants who write articles in NAEYC journals gained their degree studying what others have written. That's "research" but not what you learn researching at a major university. I'm retired now--last presentation last May. I've read all of the DAP literature that NAECY has put out and, like you, find it too ridged. I believe that you were doing DAP in your home. I see the focus of early childhood education to be training emotional regulation and social skills. My Ph.D., 1971, was my own research into paying attention with four-year-olds so you may understand my frustration. I've read a lot of research since my doctorate.

------------------------------
Jack Wright
Child Development Consultant
Success With Children
St Ignatius MT
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

I strongly believe early Childhood professionals should keep doing what they know is best for children birth to eight.  I think in the setting you observed and probably others, "it's about funding and not about fun".  When those who work with children from birth to 8 change the narrative from kindergarten readiness to children readiness, we will move from what you witnessed to what I heard you say you do.

------------------------------
Carla Gadson
Gary IN
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Hi DeAnn
In response to your question, Does DAP apply to Elementary School? Having been a volunteer in my children's classroom and a school volunteer while enrolled as an early childhood development student, I saw DAP used to support my children's learning. I volunteered for eight years, from pre-school to eighth grade.

On the topic of getting children ready for kindergarten, hesitantly, I share my experience and philosophy, for it is not only based on academia. Instead, it is based on this provider's professional development, program philosophy, and life skills. Specifically, my knowledge of early childhood development and 30-year experience building preschoolers' lifetime early learning foundations, using research-based curricula in a play setting guided by daily routines, repetition, and consistency.

Ours is a program created around the guidelines of universal preparation for kindergarten. However, our primary goal is successfully preparing our kiddos to transition from our house to their local school house. To attain this level of success, we needed a customized program aligned with the guidelines and our local school's expectations for early learners. Pre-Pandemic, we gain this knowledge through community engagement, serving on the neighbor school readiness committee, and visiting the kindergarten's classroom with and without our preschoolers. This approach and the community level of engagement are consistent with the scaffolding process we use to prepare our children for success at each level of their ages and stages of development. Over the years, this approach has been vital to building our kiddos' cognitive, social and emotional intelligence with confidence and a recognizable competency level.

We focus on a successful transition for the children and their families. We use the preschool program to educate, and daily parent reports to communicate the children's daily playful adventures. Our daily reports educate families about early learning concepts and our program's developmental benefits. We promote my community engagement and service and work as a model and encouragement for families. We encourage families to offer similar play opportunities at home, find ways to get involved in the classroom and continue supporting their children's education. Our experience is that the Kindergarten Teachers, at the beginning of the school year, introduce the same or a modified routine.  

Thank you for being in the grandchild's classroom and identifying ways to support our youngest learners further playfully.

------------------------------
Monica Jackson
Owner
Jackson Child Care
Springfield VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Thanks, everyone, for your great feedback!  My thought as an Early Childhood professional is to keep preschool play-based and not try to make preschool an elementary school experience. I fully support all the research that goes into the DAP document, and I know that play is how children learn best. I would much prefer that colleges and universities teach these standards to elementary education students, so we are ALL on the same page.

My research as a Ph.D. student was to look at the biological side of things. Looking at how the Kindergarten class was being run almost military style (at least from my point of view from an ECE perspective) made me wonder if we were to test children's cortisol levels in that setting, my guess is they would probably be quite high. Several of the children looked very stressed, and one was even crying at one point. One child asked me "How much longer until we go home?" 

I was really pondering how to help this teacher once I develop rapport. Her classroom does not have the space for a block area, reading nook, or any of the areas mentioned in the Kindergarten guide Aubrey gave me. All she has allotted for play is a place on the floor by the door where all the backpacks were piled. It seemed to me that only the kids who finished their work early got to play, and it was a very short time. There was just a small Rubbermaid bin of a few Magnatile blocks and a few other things, and the kids needed to sit in the pile of backpacks or under a desk to play with them.  She really does not have the space she needs. The room is large but desks fill the majority of the space. I guess if she used tables instead of desks, she could free up more space for play.

I like that in Washington's Kindergarten guide it says in September and October, the Kindergarten classroom should look just like a preschool. Then it transitions to a Kindergarten classroom for most of the year, and then in the end, it transitions into a 1st-grade classroom. I like that idea. I wonder why her classroom is not equipped with the things mentioned she needs in the Kindergarten guide.

I am also concerned (based on some people's comments) about the idea that Universal Pre-K for all might become more like Kindergarten in its implementation, particularly if the PreK classes are in the elementary schools taught by elementary school teachers. 

I follow Creative Curriculum in my preschool along with Handwriting Without Tears to prepare children for Kindergarten. I love the group discussions I have with the children that helps them to gain critical thinking skills and see multiple solutions to problems. But that is being extinguished in the Kindergarten classroom where the teacher views only one right way to do things, and everyone must conform to that one way. My program is called Discovery Place where I believe children should learn through discovery. In Kindergarten they are drilled with facts and chant back the correct answers. In Early Childhood Education classes, I teach that we cannot just open the kids' heads and pour knowledge in. They learn through discovery and through play. The early childhood textbooks I teach out of say that learning should be play-based and child-led, not so much teacher-directed learning. But in Kindergarten it is all teacher directed. The heads open up, and the teacher pours in the knowledge. It's just a big adjustment, and I feel that we need more of a bridge and also communication between the field of Early Childhood Education and Elementary Education. I am not sure the best way to do that.


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Hi DeAnn,
I teach PreK in a public school in Ohio. I am surrounded by kindergarten classrooms and I hear what you are saying. There is always pressure from the district to make our preschool more academic. This is definitely a challenge when we know how children learn best. I have been a preschool teacher for 35+ years. I used to enjoy teaching and the creative fun learning activities we carry out. With the pressure of ongoing assessment documentation, it is so difficult to really be "in the moment" with the children. The school I am in is 16 years old and even when I first started in this school, preschool and kindergarten teachers were given new play equipment (easel, sensory table, kitchen set, etc.). Now when I walk in the K classrooms, that equipment is pretty much gone and replaced by tables for the children to work at. I know that kindergarten teachers feel the pressure too when the district strives to get high "grades" on district report cards. I honestly believe the Kindergarten teachers do not have the choice, as all the mandates seem to come from administration who never taught the early years. We are to teach children to do their best and love themselves where they are, yet "where they are" is never good enough. I guess my answer to you is... NO do not take play out of preschool! Yes, sometimes we can make it more purposeful, but other times the children need to use their own creativity and explore the world around them on their own terms. In my classroom I try to find a common ground. I believe I have accomplished it but not without working many hours overtime and much added stress and anxiety. It just shouldn't be that way, we should love what we do.

------------------------------
Mary Hilliard
Teacher
Brewster OH
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Mary, this is so good to see your perspective from a Pre-K classroom housed in the school. I used to advocate for universal PreK for all, but now I"m not so sure. What I am mourning the loss of is the critical thinking skills I sent the children off with. I don't know if you use Creative Curriculum or not. Creative Curriculum teaches children to come up with creative solutions to problems and work as a group during shared writing to brainstorm ideas. Everyone's perspectives were valued, and children felt heard and understood because their ideas were written down. 

But what I see in Kindergarten is only one answer is the "right" answer. There is a lot of call and response where the teacher asks a question and all the children need to answer in unison the one memorized answer. I don't want the kids to lose the things I taught them. It feels like the good things I sent them off with are being smothered, and individualism is being lost. I can see the draw to homeschooling. I really think there needs to be a discussion between the top NAEYC DAP people of Early Childhood Education and the Core standards Elementary Education people to reach some common ground. 

It is much like politicians. The Elementary school people will say the PreK people are not having high enough standards and are not doing their job preparing the kids well enough, and the PreK DAP Early Childhood people will say the Elementary school core standards people are expecting children to do things beyond their developmental level. We need to have a conversation with the brain scientists who know that the corpus callosum in children under age eight is not well developed and certain skills cannot be taught until age eight. If we teach children the way they learn best, they will end up being better more productive thinkers and do much more good in the world with their knowledge. They will not be able to do much good in the world if they are stressed at school and taught only to think one way.  I am still stuck not knowing how to do this. I really want to find a way to solve this problem.


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-25-2022 07:01 PM
From: Mary Hilliard
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

Hi DeAnn,
I teach PreK in a public school in Ohio. I am surrounded by kindergarten classrooms and I hear what you are saying. There is always pressure from the district to make our preschool more academic. This is definitely a challenge when we know how children learn best. I have been a preschool teacher for 35+ years. I used to enjoy teaching and the creative fun learning activities we carry out. With the pressure of ongoing assessment documentation, it is so difficult to really be "in the moment" with the children. The school I am in is 16 years old and even when I first started in this school, preschool and kindergarten teachers were given new play equipment (easel, sensory table, kitchen set, etc.). Now when I walk in the K classrooms, that equipment is pretty much gone and replaced by tables for the children to work at. I know that kindergarten teachers feel the pressure too when the district strives to get high "grades" on district report cards. I honestly believe the Kindergarten teachers do not have the choice, as all the mandates seem to come from administration who never taught the early years. We are to teach children to do their best and love themselves where they are, yet "where they are" is never good enough. I guess my answer to you is... NO do not take play out of preschool! Yes, sometimes we can make it more purposeful, but other times the children need to use their own creativity and explore the world around them on their own terms. In my classroom I try to find a common ground. I believe I have accomplished it but not without working many hours overtime and much added stress and anxiety. It just shouldn't be that way, we should love what we do.

------------------------------
Mary Hilliard
Teacher
Brewster OH

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

After reading all the comments about the lack of DAP or sound pre-school standards in pre-school (meaning all ages before going to primary school), I'm still astonished that the same stumbling blocks still exists. I am now 43 years involved in pre-school education in South Africa. All these years exactly the same questions are still sounding here amongst real pre-school teachers and in most other countries and go like this:

• Why is it so difficult to get a proper policy in ALL pre-schools to embrace play-based education, informal teaching, guided teaching - at the most - standards that benefit the child and not the primary school and teachers that are properly trained for pre-school teaching?
• How is it possible that in spite of all the fantastic research supporting all of the above it is still the officials (in many cases)  that jeopardies this sound principles?
• How can students studying at universities learn about practical didactics if they have to visit schools where sound principles are not put into daily practice?

It seems to me the biggest question is:

• Why is pre-school education not taken seriously in spite of all the talking, lobbying, lecturing and in spite of the marvelous results in schools like Regio Amelia and in Finnland?

Just asking.........

------------------------------
Sophia Breytenbach
me
Breytenbach Center for Education
Pretoria
------------------------------

Sophia, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. I am still pondering this question. I do want to come up with a solution that will end the confusion on both sides.

------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-26-2022 05:43 AM
From: Sophia Breytenbach
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

After reading all the comments about the lack of DAP or sound pre-school standards in pre-school (meaning all ages before going to primary school), I'm still astonished that the same stumbling blocks still exists. I am now 43 years involved in pre-school education in South Africa. All these years exactly the same questions are still sounding here amongst real pre-school teachers and in most other countries and go like this:

• Why is it so difficult to get a proper policy in ALL pre-schools to embrace play-based education, informal teaching, guided teaching - at the most - standards that benefit the child and not the primary school and teachers that are properly trained for pre-school teaching?
• How is it possible that in spite of all the fantastic research supporting all of the above it is still the officials (in many cases)  that jeopardies this sound principles?
• How can students studying at universities learn about practical didactics if they have to visit schools where sound principles are not put into daily practice?

It seems to me the biggest question is:

• Why is pre-school education not taken seriously in spite of all the talking, lobbying, lecturing and in spite of the marvelous results in schools like Regio Amelia and in Finnland?

Just asking.........

------------------------------
Sophia Breytenbach
me
Breytenbach Center for Education
Pretoria
------------------------------

The lack of coordination between preK and elementary school is 100 years behind the research indicating the need for coordination. We need to change teacher certification standards for PreK /zero - 3rd grade nationwide. In the 1970-80s teachers in training were not required to take any reading courses for preK certification. How many 3rd grade teachers today have more than one course in first language vocabulary acquisition? Last time I looked the lowest scores at every grade (K-12) level were comprehension scores. We have improved our teaching of phonics. Now we need to define and improve our DAP teaching of vocabulary and reading comprehension.

See “The Gift of Words: How do Children Learn to Talk?"


Original Message:
Sent: 9/27/2022 12:16:00 AM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: RE: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

Sophia, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. I am still pondering this question. I do want to come up with a solution that will end the confusion on both sides.

------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-26-2022 05:43 AM
From: Sophia Breytenbach
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

After reading all the comments about the lack of DAP or sound pre-school standards in pre-school (meaning all ages before going to primary school), I'm still astonished that the same stumbling blocks still exists. I am now 43 years involved in pre-school education in South Africa. All these years exactly the same questions are still sounding here amongst real pre-school teachers and in most other countries and go like this:

• Why is it so difficult to get a proper policy in ALL pre-schools to embrace play-based education, informal teaching, guided teaching - at the most - standards that benefit the child and not the primary school and teachers that are properly trained for pre-school teaching?
• How is it possible that in spite of all the fantastic research supporting all of the above it is still the officials (in many cases)  that jeopardies this sound principles?
• How can students studying at universities learn about practical didactics if they have to visit schools where sound principles are not put into daily practice?

It seems to me the biggest question is:

• Why is pre-school education not taken seriously in spite of all the talking, lobbying, lecturing and in spite of the marvelous results in schools like Regio Amelia and in Finnland?

Just asking.........

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Sophia Breytenbach
me
Breytenbach Center for Education
Pretoria
------------------------------

I have appreciated everything being said on this thread - thank you so much DeeAnn for bringing this to the forefront while attending your grandchild's classroom. I had my eyes opened long ago while volunteering within my own children's classrooms, and all along as I enter as an itinerate (if you will) service provider. I very much hope to stay on top of this important topic for ECE. Let's keep it moving forward!
Kate

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Kate Ross
Kate Ross, MS, CCC-SLP, Consulting & Writing, LLC
Middlesex VT
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-29-2022 12:12 PM
From: Tammy Steele
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

The lack of coordination between preK and elementary school is 100 years behind the research indicating the need for coordination. We need to change teacher certification standards for PreK /zero - 3rd grade nationwide. In the 1970-80s teachers in training were not required to take any reading courses for preK certification. How many 3rd grade teachers today have more than one course in first language vocabulary acquisition? Last time I looked the lowest scores at every grade (K-12) level were comprehension scores. We have improved our teaching of phonics. Now we need to define and improve our DAP teaching of vocabulary and reading comprehension.

See "The Gift of Words: How do Children Learn to Talk?"


Original Message:
Sent: 9/27/2022 12:16:00 AM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: RE: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

Sophia, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. I am still pondering this question. I do want to come up with a solution that will end the confusion on both sides.

------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292

Original Message:
Sent: 09-26-2022 05:43 AM
From: Sophia Breytenbach
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

After reading all the comments about the lack of DAP or sound pre-school standards in pre-school (meaning all ages before going to primary school), I'm still astonished that the same stumbling blocks still exists. I am now 43 years involved in pre-school education in South Africa. All these years exactly the same questions are still sounding here amongst real pre-school teachers and in most other countries and go like this:

• Why is it so difficult to get a proper policy in ALL pre-schools to embrace play-based education, informal teaching, guided teaching - at the most - standards that benefit the child and not the primary school and teachers that are properly trained for pre-school teaching?
• How is it possible that in spite of all the fantastic research supporting all of the above it is still the officials (in many cases)  that jeopardies this sound principles?
• How can students studying at universities learn about practical didactics if they have to visit schools where sound principles are not put into daily practice?

It seems to me the biggest question is:

• Why is pre-school education not taken seriously in spite of all the talking, lobbying, lecturing and in spite of the marvelous results in schools like Regio Amelia and in Finnland?

Just asking.........

------------------------------
Sophia Breytenbach
me
Breytenbach Center for Education
Pretoria
------------------------------

This is a sticky problem that has been going on for decades. Yes, DAP applies to K-3rd grade. The 2022 DAP manual, Part 2 has charts at the end of each chapter for each age group including a chart for Kindergarten and a chart for Primary. The 1997 edition has more concrete and specific  examples. Check the Purdue Library or used book sellers. 

It is schools that need to change; children are not changing. Teachers are limited by flexibility of the school district and the principal. I've seen some great appropriate K-3rd classrooms but they are in the minority. Schools are changing but the speed is glacial (before global warming). Often (but not always) the difference is between a teacher with elementary education training and one with early childhood training. The ECE teacher was told over and over in her teacher prep program that she would have to find ways to make her classroom more appropriate within the confines of her school's culture. I am sorry to hear what your grandchild's classroom is like. A child in my family had a similar kindergarten teacher and it really bothered me. She was a former 6th grade teacher that should have stayed in 6th grade. The child's mother calmed me down when she said there would be something I didn't like in every teacher (she had an older child and lots of experience as a parent of school child).

Large class sizes do not mean practices must be less appropriate. I taught half-day kindergarten with 27 children in the morning and 22 in the afternoon. It was nothing like what you described. However it was 1980-81. My principal observed during a snack time that included multiple spilled milk cartons and never visited again! I was the only kindergarten teacher in the school and had lots of flexibility.

It's hard for a teacher to hear she is doing something wrong. It's hard to change when they have been successful for years. I don't think you need to change your practices. But do consider this reality in your transition planning so you can introduce children to the very different behavioral expectations in their next placement.

------------------------------
Loraine Dunn
Provider
Only Toddlers
Norman OK
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------

Dear All,
It's heartening and disheartening to read these messages: heartening because so many educators do oppose academic instruction for young children; disheartening because it's the reality. Depending on district policies, and the administrators, teachers are often severely constrained in their ability to provide programs and activities they know are best for young children - who learn by doing, making, imagining. 

We have to fight for children's right to be children. To make space and time for blocks, painting, collage, cooking, manipulatives, for imaginative play and concrete experiences. My recommendation is for teachers to do "Public Relations" by advocating for authentic practices, documenting children's appropriate work using newsletters, photos, displays, and in that way, helping families and administrators see the value of real learning.

I recommend some resources in addition to the DAP to help teachers make the case for less direct instruction and more open-ended activities: Renee Dinnerstein's blog, investigatingchoicetime.com; the Alliance for Childhood, and its publication, Crisis in the Kindergarten (2009); K Today: Teaching and Learning in the Kindergarten Year (NAEYC 2006, still good); and Teaching Kindergarten: Learner-Centered Classrooms for the 21st Century (Teachers College Press 2015). (Chapters in this last book were written by kindergarten teachers.)
Good luck!
Julie Diamond
Retired K teacher, New York City Department of Education; Field Supervisor, City College of New York
Author, Kindergarten: A Teacher, Her Students and a Year of Learning (The New Press, 2011)
 


------------------------------
Julie Diamond
Adjunct professor, field supervisor
CCNY
New York NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2022 03:32 AM
From: Loraine Dunn
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

This is a sticky problem that has been going on for decades. Yes, DAP applies to K-3rd grade. The 2022 DAP manual, Part 2 has charts at the end of each chapter for each age group including a chart for Kindergarten and a chart for Primary. The 1997 edition has more concrete and specific  examples. Check the Purdue Library or used book sellers.

It is schools that need to change; children are not changing. Teachers are limited by flexibility of the school district and the principal. I've seen some great appropriate K-3rd classrooms but they are in the minority. Schools are changing but the speed is glacial (before global warming). Often (but not always) the difference is between a teacher with elementary education training and one with early childhood training. The ECE teacher was told over and over in her teacher prep program that she would have to find ways to make her classroom more appropriate within the confines of her school's culture. I am sorry to hear what your grandchild's classroom is like. A child in my family had a similar kindergarten teacher and it really bothered me. She was a former 6th grade teacher that should have stayed in 6th grade. The child's mother calmed me down when she said there would be something I didn't like in every teacher (she had an older child and lots of experience as a parent of school child).

Large class sizes do not mean practices must be less appropriate. I taught half-day kindergarten with 27 children in the morning and 22 in the afternoon. It was nothing like what you described. However it was 1980-81. My principal observed during a snack time that included multiple spilled milk cartons and never visited again! I was the only kindergarten teacher in the school and had lots of flexibility.

It's hard for a teacher to hear she is doing something wrong. It's hard to change when they have been successful for years. I don't think you need to change your practices. But do consider this reality in your transition planning so you can introduce children to the very different behavioral expectations in their next placement.

------------------------------
Loraine Dunn
Provider
Only Toddlers
Norman OK

Original Message:
Sent: 09-23-2022 04:40 PM
From: DeAnn Jones
Subject: Preschool to Kindergarten Culture Shock! Does DAP apply to elementary schools?

I've been teaching preschoolers for 12+ years in my in-home preschool which consists of myself and 6 children. I teach 4-year-olds in their last year before Kindergarten. I also teach early childhood education classes for Purdue University's online degree program. I thought I was preparing preschoolers well, teaching them all the basics and particularly how to navigate friendships, and handle their emotions and behaviors. I remembered what Kindergarten was like when I was a child and when my own children were in Kindergarten 30-40 years ago. But this year my granddaughter is now a Kindergartener, so I signed up to volunteer in her classroom to see what Kindergarten is like today.

It was quite a culture shock experience for me!

I did not know children are sitting for most of the day doing worksheets, expected to listen and follow every instruction with exactness. I understand that it has to be this way when there is one teacher for 26 students with no other adults in the room.

I observed that the gap between preschool and Kindergarten is huge regarding expectations. I had no idea it was this way.

My question is, who needs to change? Do preschools need to up their game and teach children how to survive in a Kindergarten classroom and disregard Developmentally Appropriate Practice (DAP)? Or should Kindergarten teachers change and allow for more developmentally appropriate play activities? If so, they would need more funding to allow for another teacher in the classroom or smaller class sizes. I'm sure that Kindergarten teachers are expected to up their game to meet the expectations of 1st-grade teachers, and 1st-grade teachers need to meet the expectations of 2nd-grade teachers, and so on. Does DAP not apply to elementary school teachers in Kindergarten and 1st grade?  Children zero to eight learn best through play.

I met an elementary school teacher today, and I asked her this question. She had never even heard of NAEYC or DAP before.  I don't think elementary school teachers are taught about DAP standards and are not expected to follow them. How can we get the message to them?

I want to know some opinions on this. How can we help our preschool kids? Should we take out more play in preschool to allow for more Kindergarten readiness?


------------------------------
DeAnn Jones
Co-Facilitator for the Family Child Care Interest Forum
Discovery Place Preschool, LLC
Stanwood, WA 98292
------------------------------