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New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

  • 1.  New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-19-2020 01:10 PM
      |   view attached
    Yesterday the Governor of Texas announced that all day cares could be open.  Now there has never been an order from the Governor mandating that Day Cares had to close during the Covid 19 crisis.  In fact day cares were encouraged to stay open for "Essential Worker" employees and then at one point, day cares were restricted to only taking in "Essential Worker" students.  The rest of the time the needs of the day cares in terms of their financial and operational struggles were pretty much ignored by the Governor's office.  Centers that closed did so because they couldn't afford to stay open, not because they were mandated too.

    So now the Governor wants to make it sound like he has done this grand gesture by saying "all" day cares can be open.  The good news is that centers are no longer restricted to only Essential Worker students which gives the centers more options for enrollments.  However the extremely bad news is that in order for centers to stay open or reopen they have to comply with a new 13 page document and significantly modified child care ratios that reduce the amount of revenue that can be generated per class group and increase the labor costs at the same time.  Here is an example of the new ratios:

    0-11        ratio 1-4    no more than 8 children in the room and they have to be divided into two groups                                 Reduced by (2)
    12-17     ratio 1-5     no more than 10 children in the room and they have to be divided into two groups                               Reduced by (3)
    18-23     ratio 1-7     no more than 14 children in the room and they have to be divided into two groups                               Reduced by (4)
    2 yrs      ratio 1-8     no more than 16 children in the room and they have to be divided into two groups                               Reduced by (6)
    3 yrs      ratio 1-10   no more than 20 children in the room (these children wont be able to remain in two groups?)          Reduced by (10)
    4 yrs      ratio 1-10   no more than 20 children in the room (these children won't be able to remain in two groups?)          Reduced by (8 or 15)
    5 yrs      ratio 1-10   no more than 20 children in the room and they have to be divided into two groups                            Reduced by (12 or 15)
    6-8 yrs   ratio 1-10   no more than 20 children in the room and they have to be divided into two groups                            Reduced by (16)
    9-13 yrs ratio 1-10   no more than 20 children in the room and they have to be divided into two groups                            Reduced by (16)
                                                                                                                                                                                 Total Reduction (77 students)
    So this means instead of needing 5 teachers for your 3yr-13yrs based on the old ratios you will now need 10 teachers for that same # of students and that's just for one (8 hour) shift and have the space to divide into two separate groups.
    Obviously there were no childcare business owners utilized to come up with these numbers which is typical of how these things get decided
    in Austin.  Please review the attached document and let me know if you are assessing this the same way I am.  I don't see how this helps
    us at all.

    With the new ratios and guidelines in place, I cannot see how a childcare center that is used to operating with 120 paying students can survive if they are limited to around 70 students based on their available space and the new ratio mandates and they have to add 5 additional staff if they want to go above that number.  If someone can figure out a budget that works with these numbers, please let me know.


    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-20-2020 12:22 AM
    Tim,
    I am in Illinois and to be honest I pray that some of those ratios apply to us. Many of those are our ratios in good times. We are hearing we may not be able to have those ratios. Rule of thumb may be no more than 10 in  a room. That would be 8 infant, toddlers and 2 year olds plus teachers.  Then 9 plus teachers in all other rooms. For my very large center that is a reduction of approximately 155 children. There are also rumors that it could be this way for a while. We are not even considering opening until July 6th when our state goes to phase 4 of reopening. To say we are nervous is an understatement.

    ------------------------------
    Melissa Corcoran
    The Learning Tree
    Elgin IL
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-20-2020 08:52 AM
    Your ratios are high compared to most states and it would mean less staff. Less kids allowed less staff. Maybe consider a tuition increase based on safety needs band needs to divide. Also if your center is large consider keeping some rooms closed as you reopen. Mass has not received guidelines yet but we know ratios will be reduced and we will have to keep kids socially distant.  Our ratios are already lower than those you stated above. If you serve snack you can reduce costs by having kids bring their own because of the current situation.  Good Luck it will not be easy but it can be done.

    ------------------------------
    Hilary Peak
    Preschool/Toddler Teacher
    Worcester JCC
    Worcester MA
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 12:33 PM
    Hi Hillary,

    How were the centers in your area surviving before on the lower ratios that were in place?  Were they profitable and what were they paying their staff?  We have been in business for 39 years working with our previous higher ratios and have had very successful programs and maintained a good reputation in our communities.  Even operating at the max ratios, we never had a major issue with any of our centers including with illnesses.  The reason for that success was having strong managers and doing lots of training with our staff, but also having income from our after-school programs that help supplement our bottom line from the two primary ECE locations whose profit margins were lower than the after-school programs.  Without the income from those programs we would not have been able to afford all of that training and maintain our high standards of building maintenance and cleaning.  Now all of 5 of our after-school locations have been closed since March with no signs of ever reopening.  That represents a loss of $40,000.00 gross per month of revenue.  Our other two primary locations used to generate $80,0000 and $48,000.00 of gross revenue per month, but have seen that decrease to $36,000.00 and $20,0000 per month prospective based on the limitations of the new ratios standards and peoples fears of returning based on Covid.  The people that are making the decisions about how and if we can be open don't have a clue about how these changes hinder our business.  If the local, state and federal government aren't going to provide some immediate financial relief that are not loans that have to be paid back, there is no way centers will survive.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-20-2020 09:38 AM
    Tim:
    I understand the dilemma.  These new ratios are similar to what many states already had as their normal ratios.  The Mass. regulations will be released soon, as a draft.  They will most likely also include a reduction in the number of children allowed in each group.  I think this is prudent, though difficult.  I hope there's funding to help centers to stay open with new regulations in place.

    ------------------------------
    Aren Stone
    she/her/hers
    Child Development Specialist
    The Early Years Project
    Cambridge, MA
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 12:40 PM
    Hi Aren,

    We can't just hope for funding, we have to demand that there is funding before we are going to be able to comply with the new standards.  I don't understand how centers in other states were making it before on the lower ratios.  They couldn't have been financially solvent based on what it truly costs to provide care versus what they can charge to cover that care.  Just because other states had lower rates doesn't mean that was a good thing from a business perspective.  That is why we are hearing that so many centers have closed and will not be able to reopen.  They weren't making enough money before in order to have any savings or reserves to carry them through a bad time.  In Texas, based on our old standards, I was able to build up a reserve, but only by having multiple locations which included off-site after-school programs that had higher profit margins which helped support our two main locations.  However not that our 5 after-school locations are permanently closed, the two primary centers will have to make it on their own, but that is not possible with the new lower ratios.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-23-2020 09:10 AM
    A business model is not a smart or sustainable way to care for others. Care of children is our collective responsibility and should be recognized as a public good, not a private matter. The crisis has revealed this again. Our already under valued and under resources fractured systems of care must be reimagined. We will never achieve pay equity and high quality care for all until care is recognized and valued as a public good. 

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 8.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 10:14 AM
    Dear Carol:

    This is the problem with early childhood education of children outside the public school system, whether for profit or not for profit, although it applies more broadly to the for-profit childcare business. In 1995, the Cost, Quality, and Outcomes research study discussed the tension between providing high-quality childcare and making a profit, and that the tension between these two often causes underfunding of a number of aspects of community centers, including supplies and the educational preparation of the teachers in community centers. I wonder if there is a more recent study that confirms that this tension continues to exist, especially for for-profit centers, or whether conditions have changed.

    ------------------------------
    Nora Krieger, PhD
    Associate Professor Emerita/Past Chair NJEEPRE
    Bloomfield College/NJ Educators Exploring the Practices of Reggio Emilia
    Highland Park, NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 10:43 AM
    Yes, Nora!  So sad this discussion dates back so far....
    The tension between the business model and providing high quality education and care is also leveraged at this time with public health. Directors are confused and conflicted- should I follow "best practices" and keep small groups? or should I enroll more children so that I can pay the bills? This is an unfair spot for child care directors, who care deeply for children, to be placed in. We cannot ensure anyone's health and safety in this climate and we have NO SUPPORT from NYS OCFS in making these decisions.  We want to enable child care to SURVIVE because we know how families and the whole community and economy is depending upon us.  This is the MOMENT for our Nation to show its value of care by funding care.  Society is pushing children and child care providers to the front lines - we are leading the  reopening plan.  We are the invisible and essential infrastructure. Child care will save our communities - but will our communities save us?

    ------------------------------
    Carol Murray
    Bard Nursery School
    Red Hook NY
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 01:35 PM
    Hi Carol,

    The only way Childcare can save our communities, is if we are able to pay our bills, and under the current environment that is nearly impossible to do while creating a "socially responsible environment".  The essence of childcare and the developmental and social needs of children do not occur or can be delivered in a vacuum which is what the current guidelines require.  The financial costs to provide that in a reduced ratio and reduced capacity environment are astronomical and I have yet to see or hear any state or local government official say they are willing to give us $200 or $300 more per week per child, on top of what we already charge, in order to meet the desired outcomes of the new social distancing guidelines in order to protect the health and well being of our staff, children and their families.

    The statement "Show me the Money!" has never been more relevant.

    Tim

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 02:02 PM
    I agree Tim. I think in New Mexico the child care centers are getting help directly for operating budgets and teachers are getting a $300 weekly increase. Besides that, the CARES money has not helped any of us. NY state has only given out some hand sanitizer and wipes- and set the CARES money aside for people under the poverty line. There is a surplus of money sitting and not being touched right now. Child care must be subsidized as a public good and this subsidy must reach every child care teacher and center operator and parent. Our survival and wellness is inseparable. 

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 12.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 02:00 PM
    Hi Carol,

    Even public school systems have to follow the basic business model principles in order to employ their teachers, supply and maintain their buildings, employ their administrative and ancillary staff etc.  Bottom line is there has to be more money coming in than there is going out.  Even school districts have to plan financially for the unexpected.  The main difference between them and the ECE businesses is that the cost of providing public education is shared by the public regardless if you have a student in school or not.  If a school district is not bringing in enough revenue to cover their expenses or if they have to add more schools and teachers, they raise taxes and as tax payers we just have to accept that.  In the ECE businesses, the primary funds come out of the pockets of the people utilizing the service.  The general public hasn't been conditioned to think that they should share in the cost of taken care of young children even if they do not have children of their own that would need that service.  Until their is an attitudinal shift of the public's responsibility towards childcare, we will continue to find it difficult to find enough government subsidy money to take care of the problem.  What can or cannot be done for the good of ECE, will always be dictated how much money is available. Not considering what we do as a "business", and using good business practices, is what has gotten the industry in such a mess to begin with and that must change if we are going to survive.

    Tim

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 02:06 PM
    Yep! In 1972 the child care bill that would have created a U.S. system for universal access to high quality care was Vetoed my President Nixon and it was claimed that if municipalities and governments supported childcare it would lead to the erosion of the family. ����

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 14.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 02:17 PM
    Wow Carol.  I didn't know about the legislation from 1972.  Thanks for sharing that info as there may be others like me that didn't know there had been an attempt before to make public funding available for childcare similar to how it is made available for public schools.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 03:06 PM

    The United States Congress passed the Comprehensive Child Development Bill in 1971, with Senate vote 63 to 17.[1]

    If this bill had become law it would have provided a multibillion-dollar [2] national day care system designed partially to make it easier for single parents to work and care for children simultaneously, thereby alleviating strain on the welfare system.[3] President Richard Nixon vetoed the bill in 1972.

    Nixon's veto and his accompanying rationale reveal several staple thought processes of Cold War politics in the United States.[4] He said that the bill would implement a "communal approach to child-rearing," tying it to broad-based fears of Communism. He also said it had "family-weakening implications." [2] The idea that America was distinguished by strong traditional families was often used (by Nixon and other American leaders) to contrast it with the USSR and to resist feminist demands for greater equality for women. Nixon's famous "kitchen debates" with Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev included prominent examples of this concept.[5]

    The bill incited some political backlash from anti-welfare and anti-feminist activists who opposed the idea of women in the workforce and who were leery of allowing children to be partially raised outside of the home.[2]



    ------------------------------
    Carol Murray
    Bard Nursery School
    Red Hook NY
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 02:59 PM
    Not just erosion of family but, God forbid, socialism. I remember when that issue almost got approved. 

    Tim: I wonder, did you apply for the small business loans, which can be used for covering salaries and benefits. If the money used for those purposes, I believe, you do not have to pay it back. Unfortunately, the applications are difficult and long. A community center here in NJ received the money. The executive director was told to go to a small community bank to apply, which she did and it was approved. If you can do this and the timeline has not expired, going to a large, national bank was discouraged.

    ------------------------------
    Nora Krieger, PhD
    Associate Professor Emerita/Past Chair NJEEPRE
    Bloomfield College/NJ Educators Exploring the Practices of Reggio Emilia
    Highland Park, NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 03:31 PM
    Hi Nora,

    Yes we did apply for and received the PPP loan which in our case expires next week.  As a result of getting the loan we were able to reopen on April 20th after being closed for 3 weeks.  We have used the loan to cover payroll for 45 of our employees, two payments on the interest on the mortgage of our building and two payments on our utilities.  So yes we will not have to pay the loan back.  However, the loan didn't cover the payroll taxes for the 45 people nor any of the other expenses we have incurred since we reopened and had to spend more money on purchasing PPE's and extra cleaning supplies for the building.  We have been reopened almost 8 weeks and our enrollment and attendance have continued to be very low around 25-30 students per week which of course revenues are still down.  We normally have 120 students at one location, 85 students at our second main location, and 220 students at our 5 after-school programs.  The after-school programs are still shut down.  So now we are at the end of the PPP funds, we still have to come up with the payroll taxes for the last 8 weeks and we have deferred our $12,000 per month mortgage payment for the last 3 months and need to make a payment on that next month.  And our normal payroll alone is $95,000.00 per month.  No one has shown me yet how I am suppose to keep everything going with just 60 paying students out of an original 425.  As of next week we are looking at massive lay offs because nothing else is available to help us financially after the PPP loan.

    Tim

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 02:09 PM
    Well, I wouldn't liken the public schools system to a business model because a business model does not provide free services to its citizens. 

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 19.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 02:24 PM
    My point is that nothing is "Free".  Parents look at public school as being free but it is not. They pay for it through their taxes which they don't really pay attention to. If they were required to write a check every month for their child's education, instead of having their taxes automatically withdrawn which they never pay attention to, their attitude would be quite different.   And actually there child's "Free Education" is also being subsidized by everyone that pays taxes. "Free" public school only exists because everyone pays property and school taxes where they have kids of school age or not.  This occurs because society decided along time ago that there was a shared responsibility to educate all of America's children so they had to come up with a way to pay for it by having everyone pay school taxes, not just those that were using it.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 03:00 PM
    Yes, I call public school "free" and I understand it is OURS and I pay taxes and participate in the system.  Most of the parents I know understand that.... just as our libraries are "Free" and our roads and bridges are "free"  At the turn of the century our government participated in a giant investment in the infrastructure to ensure our towns had electricity, roads, bridges, water - the public grid is "free".
    I dream of the day when we have a CARE GRID - when we recognize the infrastructure of CARE that is a public need and public good and we support those who care for children, disabled, and elders as part of the public system of citizenship.

    ------------------------------
    Carol Murray
    Bard Nursery School
    Red Hook NY
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 04:17 PM
    Hi Carol, 

    I have the same dream of a kind of CARE GRID" that is part of the infrastructure of our country. That our "Free Public Education" is for Everyone who chooses to use it. 

    Thank you for sharing your belief and commitment to this dream. 

    Linda Boss

    --
    Leadership is less about what we know and more about what we're willing to discover.
    -Diane Branson






  • 22.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 05:28 PM
    I think we need to reimagine our focus on civics education, starting really early with providing experiences for children that develop in them what it means to live in a "caring" society where the common good is a driving force in how we think and act. Nothing is free and we all have to be good stewards of our society so that it thrives in the future and provides a good life to each succeeding generation.

    My children are now in their 40s but I have grandchildren whose development is dependent on my taxes and how that money is used. Each generation gives to the next. We seem to have lost sight of that value today in the United States.

    I truly like the idea of a CARE GRID to protect our infrastructure as broadly defined.

    ------------------------------
    Nora Krieger, PhD
    Associate Professor Emerita/Past Chair NJEEPRE
    Bloomfield College/NJ Educators Exploring the Practices of Reggio Emilia
    Highland Park, NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 05:47 PM
    I like the whole idea of "infrastructure".  I have been using that word a lot lately with our local civic leaders.  Usually when they talk about infrastructure it is just around transportation and mobility.  When every started talking about what it would take to get the economy going again in our area and what "infrastructure" needed to be in place, I stressed to them that ECE and childcare centers were a central and key part of the infrastructure that needed to be considered along with the other elements.  It's all a giant puzzle and there are a sequence of events that need to be followed in order for their to be success.  That sequence is still under development.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 10:21 PM
    I am so glad that you, an Early Care and Education Business Owner and Leader, are part of the conversation in your local community about how to develop the "sequence" of putting the puzzle together in a way that child care is included as a major contributor to the infrastructure that will support the recovery of the economy. I believe this one of the "gifts" of this disequilibrium. It is presenting opportunities for ECE leaders to be involved in local discussions about what the new normal can be. Please keep us up-to-date on how those conversations go in your community so others will be inspired to follow your example.

    ------------------------------
    Linda Boss
    Instructor
    University of WI - Platteville
    Lewistown PA
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 03:09 PM
    So, that just brings us back to whether our society should be looking at all education and care from 0 through 12th grade. Maybe we should also be looking at higher education as well.

    I went to CUNY, the City University of New York, Queens College, in the 1960s. My college education was essentially "free", paid for with taxes from everyone. The Community College System was also included here. I paid a student fee and I paid for my textbooks. All that went away around 1969 or 1970. What a shame! I wonder how many more people would have gone to college and graduated if tuition had stayed "free". My parents and I were not left with crazy debt as the students are today.

    So, there are some things that are considered a "common good", as you say, and should have broad support. In NJ, where I live now, we are acutely aware of how much money goes to education. Up until a few years ago, citizens of the individual towns voted to approve or disapprove of school budgets. Now, budgets increases are limited and the public does not vote on the budgets anymore.

    ------------------------------
    Nora Krieger, PhD
    Associate Professor Emerita/Past Chair NJEEPRE
    Bloomfield College/NJ Educators Exploring the Practices of Reggio Emilia
    Highland Park, NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-20-2020 09:56 AM
    We have been open for essential workers since this all started but now with Phase 1 are open to others but with lots of restrictions; only 5 in a room for Infants and 10 to a room for all others including staff.  We had to stagger return dates for others, but will have problems if we don't move into Phase 2 soon so that the others can return as all our rooms are now full. I have staff that are uncomfortable with even those numbers due to exposure.  It's a challenge to follow all the guidelines, we are working twice as hard, but at least I feel comfortable we are keep children and staff as safe as possible. Shame on your governor though, all LA centers that are eligible for child care assistance have received grants to help alleviate the extra costs.  Our state has been a great support through all of this!

    ------------------------------
    Pamela Brignac
    Early Learning Center
    Baton Rouge LA
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 12:45 PM
    Hi Pamela,

    The "grants" or funding that has been made available has only been going to centers that were originally participating in the States Subsidy programs.  Centers that were primarily private pay, have not had access to that money or if they did not have any subsidized students at the time of the crisis or a small number of subsidized kids they have reached a much smaller amount of that financial support.  When the standards were announced on Monday it was along with the announcement that we could now take non-essential worker kids.  However with the new lower ratios, were already almost at those numbers so there isn't room for those other students to come back unless we higher more staff.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-20-2020 10:36 AM
    I am so very sorry this is such a burden for childcare businesses in Texas! That said, your 'new' ratios match very closely to our 'normal' ratios! Wow.

    ------------------------------
    ANIKA BLUM
    Owner/Director
    LITTLE TIGERS LEARNING CENTER
    Adel IA
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 12:46 PM
    How did ya'll make it financially before on  the lower ratios?  How big were your centers?  What did you charge and were you profitable?

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 04:23 PM
    We're new, only open 2 years with a brand new building, so we wouldn't have without the PPP and some other small business grants. This is much more of a passion/long term investment. A child under 2yrs is $240 per week for tuition.

    ------------------------------
    ANIKA BLUM
    Owner/Director
    Little Tigers Learning Center &
    Little Tigers Clubhouse
    Adel IA
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-20-2020 10:49 AM
    Hi Tim - You are accurate in your assessment. Based on the great support we've received from Workforce Solutions so far, I'm going to be optimistic and hope that this is short term, and as the virus subsides we will be allowed to go back to our old ratios.  If not, as you point out, we've all got a real problem.  Hang in there.  

    Ed Bradley
    Kyle's Bright Beginnings Learning Center

    ------------------------------
    Edward Bradley
    COO
    Kyle's Bright Beginnings Learning Center
    New Braunfels TX
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 12:55 PM
    Hi Ed,

    My wife and I have very good friends that live in New Braunfels and we visit them quite often.  We will have to try to connect the next time we come up there to visit.  Through this whole ordeal, I have been direct contact with Kim Kofron, who is the Executive Director for TXAEYC, and few other Executive Directors from some of
    the other childcare advocates in Texas.  Kim has been funneling information to the Governor's Strike Force and has sat in on some of the meetings to express our concerns and interest.  She says that the Strike Force Group still doesn't get how much more money needs to be directed towards the childcare centers and not just via the subsidy program, as many centers do not participate in that program due to the low reimbursement rates.  All 5 of my after-school programs have been closed since the school districts closed and based on what I have heard we wont' be able to reopen them in the Fall.  We have two primary locations and both have seen at least a 75% drop in revenues.  We were hopeful that would change on Monday when the Governor announced that we could start taking back in students of non-essential workers, but then we saw the new ratio standards and we had to pivot again.  I'm working on a financial model to see what is going to work best under the new restrictions, but with our previous overhead and mortgages on our new center it is definitely a challenge

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-23-2020 05:13 PM
    Tim, 
    Now you've got 2 sets of friends in New Braunfels!  Please reach out to me if you're in the area.  Although we spent a career in corporate life, we've only been in childcare for a year.  I'd love to pick your brain and hear your perspective.  Hang in there.

    ------------------------------
    Edward Bradley
    COO
    Kyle's Bright Beginnings Learning Center
    New Braunfels TX
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-26-2020 07:11 PM
    Hi Edward,

    I too came out of Corporate America prior to getting into this field. I was in healthcare for 25+ years and now I have been in ECE for the past 12 years.  The ECE field is not known for having sound business practices so I was able to take what I had learned from my corporate life and super impose that onto the childcare business that my mom had established 27 years previously.  We have now had the original business for 39 years as of this May and the new center we had opened had its 6 year anniversary in March as the Covid crisis was hitting.  With you guys being so new to the industry I can only imagine the challenges ya'll have faced as this pandemic has unfolded. Will definitely get in contact with you next time we are in New Braunfels.  You can e-mail your contact information to me at twkaminski@sbcglobal.net.

    Best regards.

    Tim

    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-20-2020 10:52 AM
    I agree with the other responses .    Your new ratios are better than NY were before Covid restrictions.   
    We are now allowed to operate with 10 in a class room.   - ANY age group and that includes teachers .    
    so even for 3 and 4 year old our new ratios are 1 teacher to 4 children since max class size is 10 children.

    NO ONE  in NY will be able to survive with these numbers unless the price of child care is doubled and we all know parents can't do that.

    ------------------------------
    DiAnn Belluccia
    Executive Director
    Kids Campus
    Lynbrook NY
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-21-2020 12:23 AM

    Dear Diann, I am confused- where  are you finding changes in ratios in NY? I am also in NY and thus far we have no new regulations in childcare except for that teachers must wear masks. 

    Carol 



    ------------------------------
    Carol Murray
    Bard Nursery School
    Red Hook NY
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 10:07 AM
    Hi Carol,

    I just want to clarify that the new class sizes and restrictions I referred to came from an OCFS conference call for new COVID protocol for Long Island NY not all of NYS.    Sorry for not qualifying.  


    ------------------------------
    DiAnn Belluccia
    Executive Director
    Kids Campus
    Lynbrook NY
    ------------------------------



  • 38.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 09:08 AM
    Hi Carol.... I am not sure if others have responded to you, but OCFS ratios haven't changed, but the Governor's executive order currently limits group sizes in the state to 10 people.... which includes child care centers.  His executive order supersedes any OCFS regulation and you need to follow the 10 group size limit.  You should reach out to your lisensor with questions and refer to their website- which has an FAQ page to assist you with changes you may wish to consider

    ------------------------------
    JoAnn Toth
    Quality Improvement Specialist
    QUALITYstarsNY
    Niskayuna NY
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 09:37 AM
    Yes- I did reach out to my licensor and she said groups size is same. 10 is a recommendation and not a license requirement. I am emailing her again now with that exact question. Much confusion in the state including with our licensers. 
    Carol 

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 40.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-21-2020 12:59 AM

    hello Tim,

    Thanks for sharing this document, I will read through it later.


    I don't live in the US, but I do have a question for you Tim, & all the educators who have replied to your post - will the number of children in a classroom be based on the size of the class as well as the new requirements for social (perhaps that term should change to 'physical') distancing? In the UAE the regulations for class sizes in preschool is based on the size of the room and each child is expected to have a minimum amount of space. Thanks.



    ------------------------------
    Patricia Mezu
    Professional Minds FZ LLC
    www.prminds.org
    ------------------------------



  • 41.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 08:35 AM
    Hello Patricia -
         In my state, the group size in a classroom was determined by two factors: ratio of student-to-teacher based on age, and allocating a specific square footage per student, which I can't recall right now. So for example, the ratio for 3-year-olds is 8 children with 1 teacher, and the physical space of their classroom in my school allows for a group size of 12 children with 2 teachers. With this new group size restriction of 10 bodies in a physical space, regardless of the allowable square footage or size of your rooms, centers are faced with turning students away and losing that revenue, or spreading staff across smaller groups if you have the space in your center to do this, or hiring more staff if you don't have enough teachers qualified to lead a class by themselves. It's complicated and financially detrimental and disheartening.

    ------------------------------
    Tina Summers
    Amherst NH
    ------------------------------



  • 42.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 09:43 AM

    Thanks Tina,

    I can't imagine what you and other settings are going through. It seems At the moment there are no concrete solutions. Let's hope this will be temporary. 


    I now better understand what the restrictions mean - Regardless of class size, the maximum numbers remain the same. That must be frustrating and I assume there's no scope at this time to increase fees. It's a global issue. 


    im just getting ready to listen to a webinar about reopening in Europe and the U.K. it's great to be able to tap into what other countries are doing. 


    if you are interested here is the link 

    https://upp1drho.videomarketingplatform.co/famly-sessions-2020-vol-2-reopening/join

    https://upp1drho.videomarketingplatform.co/famly-sessions-2020-vol-2-reopening/join

    best wishes,

    patricia 



    ------------------------------
    Patricia Mezu
    Professional Minds FZ LLC
    www.prminds.org
    ------------------------------



  • 43.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-23-2020 07:17 AM
    We haven't heard yet if our ratios will change here in Massachusetts, but I wonder, across the board, can we keep the same amount of children and teachers but just break the groups up differently and utilize outside as another "classroom". For example if you have a class of 12 with two teachers- 6 are in the indoor classroom with one teacher and 6 are in the outdoor classroom with one teacher. You then rotate that schedule daily.  Better yet...find more outdoor space so everyone can be outside with enough room to spread out.  We know now that the virus is much more likely to be passed person to person and not on surfaces...outside provides ample fresh air to carry those droplets away and to the ground rendering them inert.  I urge us all to work with our state licensing bodies for early education and care so that we are not creating another trauma experience for children as they return to our care.  We must focus on their emotional health as well as their physical health while considering the economical health of our programs.  Anything that you can do inside can be done outside and it is the BEST place to be...does anyone have a connection to LL Bean, REI etc. to get rain and snow gear discounts or donations for children and educators? That is one draw back to being outside all the time in all weather, while it is the healthiest , it is costly to have proper gear so children and educators can enjoy themselves outside in all types of weather.

    ------------------------------
    [Christine] [Heer, M.Ed.]
    [Director; Co-Owner]
    [Grow, Bloom & Thrive, LLC]
    [Dover] [MA]
    ------------------------------



  • 44.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-26-2020 07:23 PM
    We just received more updated Texas State Guideline (ie. licensing guidelines) today, 5/26/20 that contradict the new Governor's Guidelines that were issued last Monday 5/18/20.  Here is what the update says:

    Should I follow the modified child care ratios?

    Yes, to the extent possible, you should follow the modified child care ratio chart on page 6 of the Open Texas Checklist for Child Care Operations. Modified ratios will allow you to implement social distancing strategies and help to reduce the close contact exposure should a child or caregiver test positive at your operation. We recommend group sizes be stable, with the same children and caregiver in the same group every day, this includes all age groups. These groups can be in the same room but caregivers, to the extent possible, should enforce the separation of the groups.

    Will I be cited if I do not follow the modified child care ratios?

    No, the modified child care ratios are not Minimum Standards nor Emergency Rule and cannot be cited. Child Care Regulation will enforce Minimum Standards related to Child/Caregiver Ratios and Group Sizes.

    However, last Monday, the information we received along with the new ratios said this:

    (g) If this emergency rule is more restrictive than any minimum standard relating to the operations addressed by this rule, this emergency rule will prevail so long as this emergency rule is in effect.(h) If an executive order or other direction is issued by the Governor of Texas, the President of the United States, or another applicable authority, that is more restrictive than this emergency rule orany minimum standard relating to the operations addressed in this emergency rule, the operations must comply with the executive order or other direction

    So who are we to believe?  Arrghhh!  The right hand and the left hand need to slap each other!



    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 45.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-21-2020 08:06 AM
    Hello -
    We received a similar guidance document here in New Hampshire on Monday. Childcare centers here have been closed since mid-March, unless you obtained a waiver to operate as an Emergency Childcare Program to serve essential workers. We anticipated that the emergency operating guidelines would roll over to the rest of us, and that is what happened on Monday. Concerns were forwarded to the state house, and the governor announced yesterday that his Reopening Taskforce will reassess the guidelines - including the reduced group size and staff wearing masks while teaching. I am hopeful we can find a middle ground. NH is much smaller than TX so access to our state reps may be  different, but can you voice your concerns?

    ------------------------------
    Tina Summers
    Amherst NH
    ------------------------------



  • 46.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-21-2020 10:18 AM
    Good Morning Tim,
    This is absolutely ridiculous! Daycares have never had the support and respect needed. Everyone knows that the first 5 years of a child's life are the most important and crucial years. However. As childcare professionals, we are not giving the right tools to succeed. This just sucks. I am sorry. I should be more encouraging. I just can't help it.
    Hopefully we can come out of this fog.

    ------------------------------
    Sandra Rodriguez
    Director
    Beautiful MInds Academy LLC
    Orange City FL
    ------------------------------



  • 47.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-21-2020 06:42 PM

    Tim, 

    I hear your frustration. Yet, other administrators mention these ratios are not unusual for some programs. I wonder if the question is not about ratios but how to create a new approach to ECE that works for everyone involved. I, for one, do not want to go back to the way it was. 

    I believe we need to create a "New normal". Maybe that means programs will not be as large as they were before. Maybe it means more parents will continue to work from home and spend more time with their children so there will be less need for "out-of-home" care. Maybe it means educators will have smaller class sizes and have more time to "Really See Children". I'm not saying I agree with the directives coming from your governor. I do agree that you and other ECE leaders in your state need to be involved in a process of creating new systems that work to provide what's best for children. 

    Pelo and Carter, in from Teaching to Thinking: A Pedagogy for Reimagining Our Work, write that "disequilibrium is a gift". Everyone in the field is certainly in a state of disequilibrium as a result of the pandemic. Maybe one of the questions to explore is "How can we find the gifts that will evolve from these challenges?" 

     



    ------------------------------
    Linda Boss
    Instructor
    University of WI - Platteville
    Lewistown PA
    ------------------------------



  • 48.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 10:01 AM
    Dear Linda:

    I agree with you totally.

    We have to reimagine a new normal. We need to re-examine how teaching and learning unfold in early childhood centers. There is not enough respect for those who work in centers and care for our youngest children. The result of this is low wages for teachers and a belief that anyone can do this work.

    It is my hope that what this virus has wrought has changed how the public views early childhood education. As part of these changes, I hope that we examine our understanding of how children develop and what it means for how we work with young children. I hope that you will join as a facilitator in the National Book Study of Ann Pelo and Margie Carter's book, From Teaching to Thinking, either through NAEYC or through Exchange Press.

    The fear that I have is that the anxiety of the pandemic will for a long time take away the most essential element of quality early childhood education - relationships as the heart of children's development. As I wrote in my dissertation way back in 2001, "It's all about relationships".

    ------------------------------
    Nora Krieger, PhD
    Associate Professor Emerita/Past Chair NJEEPRE
    Bloomfield College/NJ Educators Exploring the Practices of Reggio Emilia
    Highland Park, NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 49.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 10:06 AM
    Mr. Kaminski,

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the point of your post isn't specifically about the ratios (If they are higher or lower in some states or not) but that they require a reduction in the number of students you can have enrolled and therefore paying in addition to the need to hire more staff.  This would result in a reduction in income and an increase in expenses.

    I am relatively certain that you are already charging what the market can bear for your area that is also in keeping with the services you offer, so I'm doubtful that an increase in fees would actually result in you recovering the potential lost income.  I also doubt that the states will authorize more generous payments that they already do for things such as VPK or USDA or School Readiness if they have those programs in your area.

    I am certain that your teachers will be thrilled with the lower ratios as will the children themselves as may you.  But if you cannot afford to keep your doors open then it doesn't really matter what the ratios are.  Please let me know if I'm putting words in your mouth, but I believe that is the message you are sending to us.

    A center that had 1 classroom for each of the listed age groups would be looking at a reduction in enrollment of slightly over 50% while at the same time looking at an increase in staffing.  How many childcare centers can afford something like that?

    If you were in a state or area where you could charge higher fees, I'm sure you already would be doing so.  You probably won't be able to cut staffing costs either and if you modify or drop aspects of your program, I would put money down that your current parents will buck about paying their old rates, if not immediately than eventually.  On top of all of this, we all have the increase cost in cleaning due to more frequent cleanings.  In other words, the expenses are going up but the income from fees has either stayed the same or gone down.  This is not a successful recipe for a business to survive.  And to make matters even better, if centers remain closed until everything is declared "safe" how much of our enrollment will remain?


    ------------------------------
    John Krantz
    Pensacola FL
    ------------------------------



  • 50.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-22-2020 12:18 PM

    Hi John,

    You are correct. My overriding issue is how will I be able to cover my expenses with a decrease in revenues.  I have been at this for 12 years now and my family has done this for 39 years.  We started out with one location, then got into the after-school business and 6 years finally reached of point of being able to build a 10,000 sq ft new state of the art ECE Academy location for a total of 7 locations serving around 500 students across all off the locations with 45 staff.  Our new center was designed for up to 22 students for each classroom 18 months to Age 5, and then our after-school program area for 26 students.  Our Infant and Toddler classrooms were designed for up to 15 students.  Each classroom was staffed based on the states ratios at the time for the different age groups and we stayed around 90% occupancy.  Our tuition rates were from $210-$230 per week.  Our tuition rates our at other location were $155-$160.00.  That locations is licensed for 90 students and average 85 students.  Our 5 after-school programs were each licensed for 48 students, stayed full and our rates there were $70.00 per week.

    During the last several years, every time the idea of reducing teacher to student ratios would come up at the state level or even national level, I would have to explain to those groups, that when you reduce a classroom ratio by one student, on average it increases the weekly cost for the remaining students by $30 each depending on the original class room ratio size.  As a business person, I cannot absorb the loss of that revenue without either reducing by expenses for that group of kids or increasing the rates per kid for that classroom.  It is pure economics 101.  The other reason I am able to charge a lower rate at our original location is that the overhead costs are lower there.  Everything is paid off at that location and has been paid for the past 30 years.  It also requires fewer staff at that location to operate that center so our payroll is smaller.

    I am not opposed to lower classroom ratios if there is a way to pay us and make up the difference of the lost income and increased cost to provide the service by having to add more staff.  To date no one has been able to or willing to give an answer to that.  The current subsidy programs are flawed and have never reimbursed centers at 100% of their published rates, therefore the childcare center ends up taking a loss on every subsided kid and payments come two weeks after the service which makes cash flow an issue.

    For all of the people that have responded that the new ratios for Texas are now at the levels their states have been at, I would ask them how have they been able to make it financially with those ratios?  What rates do you charge?  Does your states subsidy program cover 100% of the fees?  What are you paying your staff an do they get benefits?  We here nationally that daycares for years have struggled to make it and the industry is on the brink of collapse.  The reason we are here is that typically the people that get into the industry do so due to their love of kids and not their love of business.  Therefore they make sacrifices and accept less for what they do.  Profitable businesses don't due that.   Also the people that advocate for young children and ECE also usually don't have any experience running a business much less a childcare business.  There has to be a balance the love for children and good financial business practices in order the daycare industry to survive.  There are two options.  Accept the fact that if you are going to have low tuition rates, then you have to make up for that in volume of students, or subsidy that covers all of the other expenses.  Or if you want low ratios, you have to charge higher tuition rates that actually match you cost of providing the service along with a profit.  However you can have it both ways.

    As I have said before the new lower ratio standards for Texas are going to kill the daycares in our area.  There is no current business model available that can make this sustainable over time.  If anyone has a successful business model that does support these new standards and still allows the center to make a profit and pay its staff decent wages, please send it to me.  I am at a loss as of what to do!



    ------------------------------
    Tim Kaminski
    Director/Owner
    Gingerbread Kids Academy
    Richmond TX
    ------------------------------



  • 51.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-23-2020 08:30 AM
    In Virginia your new ratios are about the same to our regular ones. Now, they allow up to 10 people, including teachers, in the same room, the recommendation is to divide the room, if the square footage allows 20 kids, come up with a room divider, it can be whatever, like toys, cubbies, etc. So the 2 groups don't mix in order to keep about the same amount of kids enrolled. 
    I hope this helps.
    Claudia Robles
    Director
    Bilingualkid Language Immersion School

    ------------------------------
    Claudia Robles Arias
    PBS. BilingualKid Language Immersion School
    Mechanicsvlle VA
    ------------------------------



  • 52.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-24-2020 02:22 PM
    Hello Claiia! I have not been informed of the ability to divide the room. I understood Virginia needed to limit the room to 9 students and one teacher no matter where dividers are? I hope you are correct!

    ------------------------------
    Bev Yoakum
    Director
    Hope Academy
    Virginia Bch VA
    ------------------------------



  • 53.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-23-2020 10:27 AM
    This is truly a national conversation. We as an industry have been underfunded and making it work because of our dedication to the profession but it is now time to stand up and become vocal about how the industry will NOT survive as it is currently structured. In addition to that we are not seen as a "profession". How is it that the public school system without hesitation shut down to keep the children and staff safe and yet we are asked to "care" for the babies (0-5) with minimal guidance and minimal support for our staff. Young children are little petrie dishes on the best of days so in this environment it puts workers at much higher risk. Maintaining the level of sanitation and distance will be nearly impossible for this age group and developmentally inappropriate since they need social interaction.The national conversation is all about care and the word education is left out. The public needs to begin to understand what our role as educators of young children is and to respect and value it by giving us as an industry the same respect and thought as is given to the K-12 System.

    ------------------------------
    Joan Parris
    Stamford CT
    ------------------------------



  • 54.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-24-2020 08:46 AM
    Currently in Wisconsin you can only have 10 people in a room, 9 children and 1 teacher. Furniture doesn't count as a divider. Children cannot be mixed at any time during the day, most often there is 1 teacher sitting in each room with just 1 student at the beginning and end of the day. Additionally, outside spaces cannot be shared, students from 1 class cannot walk through the area used by another class. These regulations are highly restrictive and if they don't change, they will drive our center out of business.

    ------------------------------
    Heather Finnegan
    Preschool Teacher
    Our Redeemer Lutheran Church with School
    Delavan WI
    ------------------------------



  • 55.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-24-2020 09:38 AM

    Kentucky just received our childcare guidelines this past week to begin reopening in mid June. Our group number is a max of 10 children per room (lower for infants).  They are still working on an FAQ to come out with more detailed explanations.

    My question is for those of you who have started reopening under your new guidelines and new ratios, do you feel these will be expanded with time or these will remain and be the new norm. 



    ------------------------------
    Lisa Houghlin
    Director
    Sacred Heart Preschool
    Louisville KY
    ------------------------------



  • 56.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 09:39 AM
    Here's what my NY State licensor said on May 15th- "there is no regulation or requirement to the capacity of 10. It is a recommendation. The only requirement is the mask wearing for staff"

    Sent from my iPhone

    On May 28, 2020, at 9:36 AM, Carol Murray <cmurray@bard.edu> wrote:

    Yes- I did reach out to my licensor and she said groups size is same. 10 is a recommendation and not a license requirement. I am emailing her again now with that exact question. Much confusion in the state including with our licensers. 
    Carol 

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 57.  RE: New Texas Guidelines will Ensure that Daycares will not Survive

    Posted 05-28-2020 10:04 AM
    This confusion is just one more example of how we have been abandoned by OCFS.  JoAnn, lets be sure we've got the right information. Can you do some more research and get back to me? I just emailed my licensor again. She confirms there is no regulation change about ratios.  Everyone is in the midst of reopening and this confusion about regulations - especially from QualityStars is miss-leading. 
    Carol 

    Sent from my iPhone

    On May 28, 2020, at 9:39 AM, Carol Murray <cmurray@bard.edu> wrote:

    Here's what my NY State licensor said on May 15th- "there is no regulation or requirement to the capacity of 10. It is a recommendation. The only requirement is the mask wearing for staff"

    Sent from my iPhone

    On May 28, 2020, at 9:36 AM, Carol Murray <cmurray@bard.edu> wrote:

    Yes- I did reach out to my licensor and she said groups size is same. 10 is a recommendation and not a license requirement. I am emailing her again now with that exact question. Much confusion in the state including with our licensers. 
    Carol 

    Sent from my iPhone